Steering a Nomad with no hands

[dantama]

I made this video for another site that has an expert who states that you can't turn a motorcycle without using the bars. I wanted to refute the claim, as I knew it wasn't true.

I thought I'd post the video even though it was for another site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLLbr5-174A

[Jared]

Good for you Dan!

[cactusjack]

That's pretty cool, Dan! You were riding on sacred ground there. I hope you were appropriately reverent. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[dogdoc]

you have your electronic cruise control on Dan to give it gas.? I see its all in the lean too.

[isaiahsdad]

Totally off topic here, but kind of. A few years ago a friend of mine took me up in the OKC Police helicopter, an MD500. Wow what a ride THAT was. Anyhow, at one point in the ride, he stopped the helicopter, trimmed it out, and told me to sit still. He let go of the stick, and leaned forward and the damn thing started to fly forward. He leaned back and it stopped. Leaned left and it went left. It was the coolest thing I ever saw. OK, back on track. How anyone could say you COULDN'T steer a bike hands free, has obviously never ridden one. Good job Dan

[Yellow Jacket]

Some people are just ignorant. I learned as a kid to steer my bicycle with out the handle bars. When I moved up to motorcycles I naturally tried it on them. Of course it works.

Even though I can do it on the Nomad, it's not practical or really safe. (As Dan stated in the video.)

[jonsamson]

I did that all the time when I was riding a bike, sometimes in bike races that was the only way to give your arms and shoulders a rest and get a drink or eat a banna. Of course this was on a bicycle long distance races with a max speed of 25 mph, not a 800 lb cruiser at the same speed. The laws of physices still apply though, and the rule of counter sterring is nothing more than forcing the bike to lean to go in that direction so if ones does it with body weight lean it will turn.
Good job Dan I am glad you felt the urge to prove it, as never wanted to.

[psychocycle]

I have ridden with speed with no hands on the nomad, although I would never try doing a serpentine around steel poles in concrete bases - don't trust my skill level that much. The one thing with the nomad (at least mine and one other I have ridden) is that they are not trustworthy at low speed without hands - they develop a terrible wobble at very low speed with out hands on. I always wondered if others have encountered this. Never encountered the wobble with hands-on.

[ringadingh]

Ive been able do do it on all of my bikes as well.

[ryancooksey]

Dan its no wander why your a cop magnet!! Hope you had your helmet screen down on this one!!

[schoeney]

I have ridden with speed with no hands on the nomad, although I would never try doing a serpentine around steel poles in concrete bases - don't trust my skill level that much. The one thing with the nomad (at least mine and one other I have ridden) is that they are not trustworthy at low speed without hands - they develop a terrible wobble at very low speed with out hands on. I always wondered if others have encountered this. Never encountered the wobble with hands-on.


Yes....I have the death wobble too....at almost any speed.

[nomad561]

The wobble is gone on my Nomad since I changed the front tire. I am thinking one contributor to the wobble was the extreme overtightening of the axle.
Whatever the cause was,it is fine now.

[dantama]

That's pretty cool, Dan! You were riding on sacred ground there. I hope you were appropriately reverent. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif


Bronco's stadium for those not in the know :)



you have your electronic cruise control on Dan to give it gas.? I see its all in the lean too.


Doc, just a throttle lock. Got up to 30-35mph and locked it.



The wobble is gone on my Nomad since I changed the front tire. I am thinking one contributor to the wobble was the extreme overtightening of the axle.
Whatever the cause was,it is fine now.


The wobble happens from cupped tires. All of my Nomad's front tires have eventually done it. This tire is just edging into that territory now.

[nomad561]

I agree with that statement Dan,however,mine did it from day one(brand new)I hope the different tread design on the E III prevents or at least delays it for awhile.

[dantama]

I agree with that statement Dan,however,mine did it from day one(brand new)I hope the different tread design on the E III prevents or at least delays it for awhile.

I guess you got a particularly bad one, or I've had good ones :)

I've gone through about 6 front tires, and none of them did it when new, but all did it later when cupped. It's been the same for my bridgestones 3-4 of them, and the others.

Once it starts, it just gets worse and worse. But I've always had that beginning one or two thousand miles of peace with no shaking.

[dantama]

Some people are just ignorant. I learned as a kid to steer my bicycle with out the handle bars. When I moved up to motorcycles I naturally tried it on them. Of course it works.



These are the posts I was trying to set straight. They're pretty sure it doesn't work.

The Meromorph
Senior Member
497 Posts
[Mentor]

You persist in stating that you can lean the bike with your body and thus start a turn. This is not true. So it doesn't make any sense to insist on having a hypothetical discussion about 'what if it were true?'.
Your scenario does not reflect the real world.



aidanspa
Moderator
1118 Posts
[Mentor]

There is no counter-steering input without the positive action step of turning the front wheel by pushing on the inside grip of the direction one wants to turn. Can leaning without handlebar input lead to a counter-steering moment? Not as I understand counter-steering, it can't.

[isaiahsdad]

What forum was this off of? It is amazing on some forums, how some people seem to know everything about everything. That is one thing I like the most about KawaNOW, it seems like the people on here are not interested to show how much smarter they are than the next guy. I belong to a shooters website and it is amazing how many experts and college professors there are on there. It is one thing to say "I don't think that will work" and another to say "I am a physics professor and it is mathematically impossible for what you have stated to work under average riding conditions without x equaling the ratio yada yada yada. It is actually laughable.

On the subject of wobble, I too had a bad wobble and I did find out it was due to really bad cupping on the front tire, but in my research to figure out the problem, I found many things that can cause the death wobble. Bad, or loose/tight triple tree bolt. Loose/too tight front axle. I also read on one site that if you have too much weight, or unevenly distributed weight on the front axle, like a heavy fairing or the like. My point is that there are a lot of different things that can cause it and if I am not mistaken, the Nomad is one bike that is highly susceptible to wobble. I think there are members here that would agree. The best thing to do is go over your front end with a fine tooth comb just to be sure there is nothing seriously wrong. Just my two cents. Hope it helps.

[psychocycle]

The front end wobble I experience is on deceleration and very slow speeds. A visual inspection of my front tire does not appear to show any signs of cupping but I'm not sure if I would actually see it. The other items that isiahsdad point out I have not yet checked. I have never experienced this on any other bikes I have owned or ridden. Thanks for the ideas I will have to check further.

[isaiahsdad]

The best thing I can suggest is to do some research on the internet as to the most common causes of front end wobble. Don't take my word for it. And if you have a shop service manual, check to make sure every bolt and nut involved with the front end is torqued to the right spec. If you don't have a shop service manual, let us know here and one of us will look up the specs for you. I have a shop service manual as I am sure many others do as well and would be more than happy to get you the information you need.

[dantama]

The front end wobble I experience is on deceleration and very slow speeds. A visual inspection of my front tire does not appear to show any signs of cupping but I'm not sure if I would actually see it. The other items that isiahsdad point out I have not yet checked. I have never experienced this on any other bikes I have owned or ridden. Thanks for the ideas I will have to check further.


I can't see it until it gets very cupped. It is easier to feel it.

Brush the little gravel bits off the tread, then lightly run your hand back and forth over the tire, covering most of the exposed area below the fender. It it's cupped badly, you will be able to feel the high and low spots as you move your hand back and forth.





The best thing I can suggest is to do some research on the internet as to the most common causes of front end wobble. Don't take my word for it. And if you have a shop service manual, check to make sure every bolt and nut involved with the front end is torqued to the right spec. If you don't have a shop service manual, let us know here and one of us will look up the specs for you. I have a shop service manual as I am sure many others do as well and would be more than happy to get you the information you need.

Yes, it's good to check everything, as it could be something else. But it is common to cup tires on the Nomad for some reason.

I've had four Nomads, two of them new, and the other two bought with about 2,000 miles on them. For some reason Nomad's cup tires and wobble. Then the wobble goes away with a new tire. Then came back when it cupped. Over and over.

You can get nearly 20,000 miles out of a front tire, but it'll be cupped long before that.

It's good to check everything, and who knows, maybe you will find something that slows the cupping down. But don't think you got a lemon if it still wobbles when the tire has some wear on it.

[psychocycle]

I will check the torque specs, and yes I do have a manual, first thing you should purchase with any bike in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, the wobble isn't crazy bad, but more than noticeable at slow speeds and only when you take your hands of the handle bar to reach for another cigarette and beer. ;) Thanks for your input on this and sorry for hijacking the thread. (Although it was mostly on topic)

[AlabamaNomadRider]

Nice video. I use to ride my bicycle without hands and have tried it with some of my motorcycles. I know it can be done and for probably great distance. I like some other riders don't trust my ability like I once did.

[dandolfn]

Nice riding!

I've had my hands off the handlebars for a few seconds, but I don't think I'd try steering that way.

[pablo]

Steering with no hands has become more difficult since I got the car tire. It can still be done, but I wouldn't want to have to do any radical mannuvering (sp?).

[glwilson]

Good job Dan...

but you misspelled the word "opposite" in the video!! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

(Now you know I watched the whole thing.)

[dantama]

Good job Dan...

but you misspelled the word "opposite" in the video!! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

(Now you know I watched the whole thing.)



:-[ :-/

[wheelie]

Brave man! Nomads handle great but those poles are a bitch to run into. One of our drivers totaled a front load trash truck when he hit one at a local grade school! He hit the base the pole snapped off and landed on the cab. bent the frame and all. A bike would not stand a chance.