Darkside Downside. Are there any cons?

[billmac]

What are the arguments for not using a car tire?

I keep reading all the good about going to the darkside. I was all convinced until I talked to a 70 year old motorcycle guru. He said, don't do it, there are some downsides. The number one being the tire bead of a car tire will slip on the motorcycle rim. Has anyone heard of this happening?

I have good rubber still on my Nomad but I was all set to switch to a car tire next time. I was thinking of using the taller 185/75/16 to keep my speedometer accurate and for a relaxed top gear.

I know there are some Nomad genius' on this site using a CT. So I know I am not taking a big risk but are the car tires any less safe.

[dkdixie]

If your guru friend truly means "slipping" on rim, my ct has not moved since mounted. Still aligned with yellow dot. That's how I find the valve, look for the yellow dot.
In all the research I did before going with ct, I have not read or heard of any "slipping" on rim situation. Nor have I heard of any instance of ct coming off the rim.
Does you guru friend have first hand experience using car tire?

[Yellow Jacket]

It's almost funny. 99%, or maybe even higher, of the naysayers and negative comment makers have never tried a car tire on a motorcycle.

Now I wouldn't recommend using a car tire on a sport/super bike due to the excessive lean angles these bikes are capable of.

Cruisers and touring bikes don't have that issue.

I have never heard of a car tire slipping on the rim.

I'm not aware of any "downsides" of using a car tire on a Nomad.

As most of the Darksiders on this forum will say, do your research and make your own decision.

Here are a few links to sites with good information about the Darkside:

http://www.tomfranken.com/Darkside/Default.htm
http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/DarkSiding/start
http://forums.delphiforums.com/DarkSiding/messages/?msg=110.1
http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/CarTire/home.htm

[lonewolf]

havent found any downside yet. there are some who have logged over 40,000 on a car tire. think i hav heard of only one biker going back to a mt after going with a ct, and i cant remember the reason why? dont think it was a real serious reason, just a personal choice. and thats cool, thats the way it should be, a personal choice. i dont ever see a reason for me to go back to a mt. have put on bout 2500 miles on my ct so far and no complaints.

[strobe]

No downsides for me. Handles great, no slipping issues, same as the others. I agree with Bob, almost every naysayer has never tried it and like most things only repeat what 'they have heard'. I think a poorly matched tire to rim could likely have many issues including slipping, but the tires that are recommended for the Nomad seem to be a very nice fit for the rim.

This being said, do your research and make an informed decision, the delphi darkside forum is a good source as well.

It is not the norm, so you need to be comfortable with the decision, regardless of the pros and cons that you get. I personally felt the pros far outweighed the cons, and have not regretted it since I made the switch, but that is me, everyone needs to be very sure they are making the right decision for their situation.

[lonewolf]

Very Well Stated!!!! thnx strobe!

[cactusjack]

Downsides?

No car tire manufacturer/dealer is going to support installing a car tire on a motorcycle.

No motorcycle manufacturer/dealer is going to support installing a car tire on a motorcycle.

Other than that, none that I can think of. I am still planning on doing it when my Avon Cobra wears out.

[strobe]

Downsides?

No car tire manufacturer/dealer is going to support installing a car tire on a motorcycle.

No motorcycle manufacturer/dealer is going to support installing a car tire on a motorcycle.

Other than that, none that I can think of. I am still planning on doing it when my Avon Cobra wears out.

+1 on the no support from the manufacturer / dealer.

Some dealers will install, most won't though.

[billmac]

Thanks for your thoughts guys. And Yellow Jacket thanks for the links, I read each of them.

I am still waiting to hear a downside to installing a CT. I have never heard of anyone going back to a M/C tire. My friend who talked about the tire slipping on the wheel had no first hand experience with the slippage.

It's strange that most dealers wont install the car tire and the manufacturers won't support it either. But there are no logical explanations. This sounds like a (Cover Their Tush) response to keep them all out of court.

[strobe]

Thanks for your thoughts guys. And Yellow Jacket thanks for the links, I read each of them.

I am still waiting to hear a downside to installing a CT. I have never heard of anyone going back to a M/C tire. My friend who talked about the tire slipping on the wheel had no first hand experience with the slippage.

It's strange that most dealers wont install the car tire and the manufacturers won't support it either. But there are no logical explanations. This sounds like a (Cover Their Tush) response to keep them all out of court.

That is exactly the reason, they have not tested and certified it, so will not support it for fear of getting sued. Same goes for installers. Sad world we live in sometimes in my opinion.

[butch]

There are some who have logged over 40,000 on a car tire. think i hav heard of only one biker going back to a mt after going with a ct, and i cant remember the reason why? dont think it was a real serious reason, just a personal choice. and thats cool, thats the way it should be, a personal choice. i dont ever see a reason for me to go back to a mt. have put on bout 2500 miles on my ct so far and no complaints.

Are car tires immune to the cupping problem that plague motorcycle tires to get so much mileage from them?

[dkdixie]

There are some who have logged over 40,000 on a car tire. think i hav heard of only one biker going back to a mt after going with a ct, and i cant remember the reason why? dont think it was a real serious reason, just a personal choice. and thats cool, thats the way it should be, a personal choice. i dont ever see a reason for me to go back to a mt. have put on bout 2500 miles on my ct so far and no complaints.

Are car tires immune to the cupping problem that plague motorcycle tires to get so much mileage from them?


Great question.
Based on my research, ct's are not totally immune due to variables like out of balance. I suspect extremely low air pressure would enter into it as well.
But, we all know with m/c tires its not a question of IF tires will cup, but when.

[macmac]

I think your old rider buddy was talking about spoked wheels and tube type tires. As a wee lad lots of real mc tires had a square profile anyway.

There is one big DOWN SIDE!!!!!

It happens to the dealer who isn't going to SELL you a new rear tire in 8,000 miles or less!

[dabull]

I think your old rider buddy was talking about spoked wheels and tube type tires. As a wee lad lots of real mc tires had a square profile anyway.

There is one big DOWN SIDE!!!!!

It happens to the dealer who isn't going to SELL you a new rear tire in 8,000 miles or less!

VERY well put macmac http://s2.images.proboards.com/cheesy.gif AND at $180 a pop!!

[Jared]

I went for a 130 mile ride through some of the curviest canyons in utah today. The ct grip very well. So far, absolutely no down sides for me. (I have a buddy that owns a shop and mounted for me with even questioning.)

[billmac]

I am going to go with a CT next time. I just need to decide which brand and size. I do like an accurate speedometer so I will try to find a 185/75/16.

[rlfaubion]

I'm sold - Have 12K on a rear metz. Third set in two years, and I'm ready for one last tire purchase.

[dhomoney]

That is kind of what I am thinking. The idea of $300-$350 for two tires is grating on me.

[VulcanE]

I too am seriously considering going to the "DarkSide". I've been doing a lot of research and have found only 1 "con". That is, if you stop on a "banked" surface, the CT will try to sit flat on the surface, thus you need to be aware of this and correct for it. That's the only (-) that I've ran across so far.

[phenrichs]

Ok I read through all of these to see if BD was in here. Ping him, He rode all the way from Southern Cali to Custer and back on a CT. There may have been others as well but his is the only one I saw with my own eyes.

I am with CJ. The next time I need a tire it will be a CT. I would bet that my local car tire shop will do it too, or at least let me use their stuff to teach them how.

[kioti]

I'm already convinced! My next rear tire will be on the Darkside.
Talked with BD in Custer and I will be ready for a tire before the riding season is over.
I am buying a Harbor Freight tire changer so I don't have to beg anyone to mount it for me.

[macmac]

BD mentioned his rear tire in my thread os changing tires useing straps in the garage..

He is very pleased with that tire. With 4,000 miles there is no room for " so far"..

I have that on my Sp 5000, and am as pleased.. I have speedo error, but like stock at 10% and i can do 10% of anything in my head.

I don't even look at the speedo much anyway. I don't like to look down and I don't like the sun glare from that chome either, so i don't use it, unless i am checking miles and or gas.

For that matter i don't use the gas gauge. Mine works as intended, but I find it useless just the same.

I think I have seen the yellow light twice, and still one of these times i ran out of gas anyway.. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif Running from a T storm.

I wish these bikes had 2 trip meters instead. One of these days i am going to fix up black deer skin on the chome speedo nacell. bezel to me.

I hadn't noticed the flat Sp 5000 sits flat parked sideways on a hill either.. maybe it does.. maybe I can't tell because i can't see it?

The one thing I do know is braking improves to the point that I ran over one of my hand rolled smokes! I had it behind my ear when a dog ran out, and that butt, went right ahead of me and I ran it over! What a waste huh? http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

[metalman]

I have over 3000 miles on a CT on my Nomad. Other than a bit of extra pressure on the hand grips needed on the curves and a little squirrilness on some irregularities with a passenger while pulling a loaded trailer, I have no problems with the CT. I have HEARD of two instances where the CT separated from the rim while the bikes were parked. I presume it was a low-pressure issue. I will not go back to a MT with the Nomad.

[blowndodge]

You Rang???

As mac pointed out I have about 4K on the CT as of now. After almost 1K on it I rode it to Custer and back.

Overall I'm pleased with it. As metalman pointed out there are differences some may not find "livable". Mostly it will be the rain grooves squirliness at times. I ran into a myriad of road surfaces to and from Custer.

When an interstate has fresh cut rain grooves that are wide the car tire does try to follow it. I've ran 50lbs down to 15 lbs to see what the affect was. I also changed the front tire pressure from 42 down to 30lbs. The squirliness never completely goes away with MY truck tire. It doesn't stop me from cruising 80mph but it's there...I don't recall it being there before the CT...

Running down to low 20's seems to be the best for rain grooves but higher speed cornering at that low a pressure appears to be felt through the seat of the pants as a "rubbery" feeling like the shocks are not balanced which they are. Near 40lbs in the CT seems to be the best compromise with twisty roads as spot on. If I lived in other parts of the country where the interstates are mainly blacktop I would have no issue with the tire.

Real poor highway conditions like small pot holes the CT is better than the MT. Tar Snakes are felt less by the CT as well.

In southern cal, the freeways are concrete and always being repaved and re grooved. This kinda sucks.

Also I noticed that driving in the right hand lane where most of the heavy truckers drive my bike tries to follow the tire tracks that are slight depression in the highway. I prefer to ride down the middle of the lane when in the right hand side. I know this is where the oil is but........... It's a trade off for me.

Stopping power is a no-brainer. Standing on the rear brake peddle with almost toss you off! 2 or 3 fold in traction braking.

No doubt there is more flat protection, at least in my truck tire as it's 8-ply and rated for 70psi max. I doubt the weight of the bike is sufficient enough to run over something and have it penetrate the tire carcass.

So in a nutshell if you don't live in the city where there are lots of road improvements and deep rain grooves cut in half the roads you ride on, then the CT is going to be very livable.

If all you ride on is deep rain grooved intercity highways then you might not be pleased.

My front tire is going to need to be changed soon as it's the stock Stone' with almost 15K on it now (Yes BD has 15K on his Nomad! http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif) I'm thinking an Avon Cobra radial front tire (CT is radial) to see if this effects the rain grooves or not.

Remember I'm running a completely different type of tire than 99% of most Darksiders. 185/75/16 LT tire. This tire has a gigantic load capacity, thick carcass and taller sidewall than most Darksiders run. Not sure if other 195/65/16, 195/60.16 or 195/55/16 P tires are having the same results as me.

[ridemslow]

DITTO! ::) My dealer installed mine, but I had to sign on the reciept that it was not the proper tire for the Nomad. Other than that, I love mine. ;)

Thanks for your thoughts guys. And Yellow Jacket thanks for the links, I read each of them.

I am still waiting to hear a downside to installing a CT. I have never heard of anyone going back to a M/C tire. My friend who talked about the tire slipping on the wheel had no first hand experience with the slippage.

It's strange that most dealers wont install the car tire and the manufacturers won't support it either. But there are no logical explanations. This sounds like a (Cover Their Tush) response to keep them all out of court.

That is exactly the reason, they have not tested and certified it, so will not support it for fear of getting sued. Same goes for installers. Sad world we live in sometimes in my opinion.

[macmac]

Hmmm I found the Sp 5000 better on rain grooves, figure 8 grinding, and wire bridges.. and it makes painted lines non-existant.

Rain grooves are still something of a problem, as is the figure 8 grind..

In case no one knows what I mean about figure 8 grind, that is the road fix where they skuff the road surface and to me it looks like millions of figure 8's. No ever called it that to me, and I have no other name to call it..

I find CT's are a bit fussy on psi, with in 1/2 pound of psi. I have a fairly good digital psi tester and can feel a difference in 1/2 pound increments. It isn't much, but it doesn't take much to be good at one psi reading and be off 1/2 pound away from it

I like 36 psi in the SP 5000. At 40 psi turing is a tad too exciting for me, with 40 on a dirt road, it is like some radical salom water ski, just the slightest counter steer, and you are laying over in that mild turn, where 36 is more to my liking.

I tried 24 psi and it felt great on the paved road, but was slushy in dirt.

When I feel like messing about I play with 32 to 36 psi. The only problem so far with that is the staties stop and ask me if I am ok..

They see me sitting on the side of the road, and I bet they think I am right out out of it.

No one else they see has and uses any tools.. I am sure my blue 12 volt compressor looks like some little dope stash too, but it ain't.