Slap on the wrist or jail time

[henryk]

What do you think she'll get? Read the story here http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=290935&src=3

RIP Anita

[cactusjack]

How sad. The driver probably won't get what she deserves. Because she was painting her fingernails while driving, another person is dead.

Penalties for accidents involving drivers texting, shaving, applying makeup, reading a map, and other distractions should be doubled or tripled, just out of principle.

[strobe]

+1 People make a choice to do other tasks while driving, they make the choice and they should be held accountable!

[henryk]

I agree CJ. My fear is that this will get twisted and make the rider
at fault for some reason.

[keith23]

This is a tuff one. How many times have you glanced at a map while driving or lit a cigarette or turned around to yell at the kids or had a Big Mac. If you accidentally hit someone while wiping your mouth with a napkin or looking down because Big Mac sauce dripped on you or your cigar ash flew off on you. Do you think you should go to jail for the rest of your life???? I would hate to have to make that call. You can't say texting is worse than painting your nails or eating or taking a cell call. I'm just not sure..... :-/ ???

[Cajunrider]

IMO texting, painting nails, applying makeup, reading a book, etc. are all activities that can be done safely on the side of the road or at home if that person gets up or begins preparing to leave early enough. An accident such as spilling hot coffee on your lap causing you to lose control isn't the same root cause but can lead to the same results. I guess that's where a fair minded jury comes into play. People applying makeup or shaving tells me that they didn't leave home early enough to be ready to meet their schedule. In my mind, those should pay and pay dearly for killing or maiming someone due to their procrastination.

[waterman]

This a tradgedy. I don't know if the punishment can be severe enough. Especially when she said she didn't see the motorcycle until after she hit the bike. This tells me she hadn't looked up for some time. One thing for this type of stupidity would be permenant loss of driving.

Keith, we all have looked away sometime during driving. However, if I am looking at a map I make damn sure no one is around me. I refuse to be in an accident due to my stupidity or at least keep it to a minimum.

I am beginning to wonder if this type of education needs to be incorporated into a class that every new driver has to take so they understand the consequences of their decisions. Have family members talk about their loss or the actual victim if they weren't killed and the driver who caused this. Part of a community service for them.

I remember when I took drivers ed, we had a patrolman show up and show some very graphic pictures of accidents and talked about the causes of those. 99% were because of someone's stupidity. Still lives with me today, almost 28 years later.

[cactusjack]

This is a tuff one. How many times have you glanced at a map while driving or lit a cigarette or turned around to yell at the kids or had a Big Mac. If you accidentally hit someone while wiping your mouth with a napkin or looking down because Big Mac sauce dripped on you or your cigar ash flew off on you. Do you think you should go to jail for the rest of your life???? I would hate to have to make that call. You can't say texting is worse than painting your nails or eating or taking a cell call. I'm just not sure..... :-/ ???

I have to take exception with this. You are in your car to drive, period. Driving should be your number one priority, not cleaning Big Mac special sauce off your lap or yelling at the kids. Any distraction that takes your attention away from driving is unsafe, no matter what it is. One distraction is just as bad as another. I hate to see laws passed targeting text messaging because there are still dozens of other distractions that are just as dangerous that aren't addressed.

I don't think this driver should spend the rest of her life in jail, but she should go to jail for some length of time.

[henryk]

Waterman, I agree about the "education" part, but not just for every new driver, also every driver by some PAS's on driving safely. Some people need to be reminded more often. A TV/Radio commercial every once in a while would help.

CJ, Not a life, but some time in jail should be served.

[ringadingh]

They just passed a law here a week or so ago about using electronics while driving. Cell phones must be hands free, Ipods etc cant be adjusted while driving, no texting as well as a few other things I cant remember.
I would like to see cell phones banned outright for drivers altogether. Around here almost everyone is on a cell while driving and Ive seen how it effects peoples attention. With the volume of traffic around here its just too easy to get in trouble.

[blowndodge]

Legally, driving is a "privilege" not a "right". No excuses if your painting your nails. Gross vehicular manslaughter.

[flavor]

If you have total disrespect for other drivers by painting your fingernails or texting, you deserve to spend years in prison.

If carelessness involved guns, it would be all over the national news and the anti-gunners would beat it to death.

We had accidents in this area with people texting while driving. Even if accident with NO Death resulting, should require jail time. I believe motor vehicle accidents are at the top of the list for accidents death resulting.

[keith23]

I agree I think she should be punished.
But my question was where do you draw the line.
Cajunrider has a point and I agree you should take care of these things before you drive.
The reality is we don’t or I should say I don’t. I’ll go to the drive thru and get something to eat, answer the phone if someone calls, should I, NO.
I just don’t think we should make a blanket statement to lock her up and throw away the key.
I’m glad we have a system in this country that will decide the outcome for this woman instead of trying to legislate everything we can and can’t do...

[patmahoney]

Jail time is definitely deserved. Keith23 has a point in that anyone can be momentarily distracted by any number of circumstances, some more justifiable than others. Terrible things can happen to the best of drivers when they are momentarily distracted at the wrong instance. That was not the case here.

When someone knowingly and voluntarily makes the choice to paint their nails, or engage in any other activity that diverts their attention from the road for prolonged periods of time they need to take responsibility for that choice. The rider was stopping for a yellow light and was struck from behind by the car. This was not a case where the rider suddenly pulled out in front of her or was riding in her blind spot, the victim was riding right in front of her, most likely for some time before they reached the intersection. Have you ever watched someone paint their nails it takes two hands and visual concentration, in addition to not watching where she was going this woman was most likely driving with her knee. She stated that she did not see the rider until after the collision, well it is most likely would not have mattered if she had looked up to see the rider in her path, she would not have been able to avoid the accident because her hands were not on the wheel.

These actions are inexcusable, though I am sure some lawyer out there will try. I think she should be punished to the full extent of the law, but I will not be surprised if she walks.

[rickyboy]

I agree I think she should be punished.
But my question was where do you draw the line.
Cajunrider has a point and I agree you should take care of these things before you drive.
The reality is we don’t or I should say I don’t. I’ll go to the drive thru and get something to eat, answer the phone if someone calls, should I, NO.
I just don’t think we should make a blanket statement to lock her up and throw away the key.
I’m glad we have a system in this country that will decide the outcome for this woman instead of trying to legislate everything we can and can’t do...


What you say in both of your posts might be true about us all having done stupid things while behind the wheel. But we made those choices and when we make a choice we have to accept all the repercussions that go with those "stupid" choices. In this case, the woman took someones life. Needlessly. She was so involved with her ego that she actually forgot what it was that should be her main focus. Driving. In my opinion it's manslaughter. Yes throw the key away for 30 years, with no chance of parole. Then if she lives through that. A life time ban on driving any motorized vehicle. I wouldn't even let her pull my granddaughters wagon. If that's too tough. To frick'in bad. She should have thought about what she was doing when she made that fatal mistake to be doing something other than driving.
I would like to see in cases like the above, that the person who made the mistake, and happens to seriously injure or kill someone, that they don't even get the chance to challenge the charges of "driving with undue care and attention." I think that's what they call it up here. No discussion. "Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200. dollars". {if you remember the old game Monopoly.} One more stupid driver off the road.

[patmahoney]

ACCOUNTABILITY something we are sorely missing in society today. Too many loop holes and lawyers.

(Apologize if I offended any lawyers out there.)

[peterdarby]

When I had my wreck the driver I rear ended was charged with reckless driving. She tried to make a left exit from the right lane after she passed the entrance. She pulled into my lane without signals then slammed her brakes on about five feet infront of me. She had two drivers licenses and no insurance (mandatory). The DA in Virginia lowered her charge to improper lane change and ignored the lack of insurance. What do I think this nut will get? Not much.

[keith23]

Wow! Rickyboy you are one hard man.
Every Fatality someone was doing something other than driving.
When my oldest son was sixteen he had a coke he was drinking in the car. When he was coming up to a redlight he was putting it back in the cup holder it slipped out of his hand he tried to catch it and rear end the car in front of him. No one was hurt, thank goodness. But I would hate to think that if someone had been killed he would spend the next 30 years in prison get out when he is 46 and never be allowed to drive again. And then someone say “To frick'in bad. He should have thought about what he was doing when he made that fatal mistake to be doing something other than driving.”

[flavor]

Wow! Rickyboy you are one hard man.
Every Fatality someone was doing something other than driving.
When my oldest son was sixteen he had a coke he was drinking in the car. When he was coming up to a redlight he was putting it back in the cup holder it slipped out of his hand he tried to catch it and rear end the car in front of him. No one was hurt, thank goodness. But I would hate to think that if someone had been killed he would spend the next 30 years in prison get out when he is 46 and never be allowed to drive again. And then someone say “To frick'in bad. He should have thought about what he was doing when he made that fatal mistake to be doing something other than driving.”


There's a big difference between what happened to your son and this woman. She thoughtfully was painting her nails while driving. Your son was not blatently performing an action that normally requires much attention.

PS. What's different between this case and drunk driving. Why is driving drunk against the law. Reaction etc.

[cactusjack]

Wow! Rickyboy you are one hard man.
Every Fatality someone was doing something other than driving.
When my oldest son was sixteen he had a coke he was drinking in the car. When he was coming up to a redlight he was putting it back in the cup holder it slipped out of his hand he tried to catch it and rear end the car in front of him. No one was hurt, thank goodness. But I would hate to think that if someone had been killed he would spend the next 30 years in prison get out when he is 46 and never be allowed to drive again. And then someone say “To frick'in bad. He should have thought about what he was doing when he made that fatal mistake to be doing something other than driving.”


Yeah, those Canadians are ruthless. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif Just kidding, Ricky!

[rickyboy]

Wow! Rickyboy you are one hard man.
Every Fatality someone was doing something other than driving.
When my oldest son was sixteen he had a coke he was drinking in the car. When he was coming up to a redlight he was putting it back in the cup holder it slipped out of his hand he tried to catch it and rear end the car in front of him. No one was hurt, thank goodness. But I would hate to think that if someone had been killed he would spend the next 30 years in prison get out when he is 46 and never be allowed to drive again. And then someone say “To frick'in bad. He should have thought about what he was doing when he made that fatal mistake to be doing something other than driving.”


First off, not every fatality includes or is caused by someone that is doing something other than driving. That's a fact.

Ignorance and that's what this case really boils down to, is NO EXCUSE. I will drink a coffee, eat a burger, {not talk on the phone} and other things while driving, but I'll do those things when I see that it is reasonably safe to do so, and will not take my eyes off the road while I do them. In the case of a young person such as your son, I would suggest, if you haven't already, you urge him to be focused the entire time he is behind the wheel. Until he gains some years of experience where he has seen how quick things can and do happen. Have a Coke while your driving ! ....but drink it when there isn't a car directly in front of you. And educate our children to drink, glance, when it's the right time. In my opinion, having a coffee or eating in a traffic area where there are traffic lights, while your vehicle is in motion is the wrong thing to be doing. For exactly the reason you gave as an example. ... and because Sh!t happens.
This may be why I'm such "a hard man"....
I was driving up Vancouver Island when I was a kid and we were on a logging road. Along the roadside was a car with a huge log sitting on this now squashed car. There was a sign in front of the car that read....
"Expect the Unexpected"
That, and a thing called "tough love" You're a parent so I don't think I need to explain that to you.
I have asked all 5 of my grown up children {youngest turned 26 the other day} if I was too strict as a parent and they all say a resounding YES ! But every single one of them thanks me for that today. They're better people for it today. In my opinion. God please forbid anything ever happens to any of our children, ever. But to understand that we are all responsible for our own actions is something we have to get back to as a society.
We're all allowed to have our opinions Keith and I appreciate you have yours. If you think I'm too hard, that's OK. But being too hard isn't why we have these things happening. Like the woman painting her frick'in nails. She killed another person! She needs to be held responsible. Not a year or two in medium security and let out because she's "changed". The other person is dead. Oh well?......
Sorry to rant away ......something I'm very opinionated on.
That's all I have to say. Peace Bros.

[ponch]

I would say it falls under "Driving While Ability Impaired".

[billyboy]

When my oldest son was sixteen he had a coke he was drinking in the car. When he was coming up to a redlight he was putting it back in the cup holder it slipped out of his hand he tried to catch it and rear end the car in front of him.

Think about it, though. What if the vehicle in front of your son was a motorcycle? Because your son wanted the convenience of having a Coke while driving, he very nearly could have killed someone. Because any of us couldn't wait to eat, drink, call, apply makeup, whatever...someone could die at our hands.

We really don't take driving very seriously these days. In 2004, a 20-something babe on a cell phone rear-ended my pickup truck while I was at a red light. What if I was on my motorcycle? I'd be dead.

Your son was very lucky he didn't kill someone. Can you imagine the weight he would have to carry the rest of his life because he killed someone over a can of Coke? As a parent myself, I'm not sure I could bear the weight of responsibility had my minor son or daughter killed someone over something so frivolous.

It's an indefensible position.

[tazfl]

At first I was thinking that jail time might be a little harsh because I had heard something about this and thought that the driver of the car was a young (like 16) girl. However, I just got done reading the article and holy sh*t, this was a 48 year old woman who DEFINITLY should have better sense then painting her fingernails while driving. Like someone else mentioned in their post, if you ever watch your wife or girlfriend paint their nails it takes allot of concentration. For ANYONE to believe that they can paint their nails and drive safely is complete BS. She needs to pay for this. She needs to do some sort of jail time and she needs to pay restitutions (?) to the family of the victim for the rest of her life.

[davidjones1]

+1!!!! with rickyboy, this person might as well have got up in the morning put a blindfold on and went driving. she needs to be held responsible for her action and not get off with a slap on the wrist, if this had been one of our loved ones we would want nothing less because she had taking someone from us with no regard, I am sure or (hope) she feels something now but this does not change the fact that some one does not have a mother,sister,aunt,friend because of her selfish action.
ride safe.

[nomad561]

Should she be punished,yes,to the extent provided by the laws of the state the accident happened in. Should she be given more punishment because of the activity that led to the accident,no. Any activity that caused the same distraction is no different than her painting her nails.
Enforce the laws that are ALREADY ON THE BOOKS don't enact new "political" laws just because the activity is currently high on the publicity spectrum.(texting) Your primary responsibility when you get behind the wheel of a vehicle is operate that vehicle and NOTHING ELSE. Talking on a phone hands free is no better than talking any other way. It is the conversation that is the distraction not the fact that you have the phone to your ear.
I think it should be much harder (and more expensive) to get a license in the first and maybe people would pay more attention while driving if they knew that they could possibly lose it and not get it back. Anymore,it is almost like going to the nearest vending machine to get a driver's license in some states.

[markusmaximus]

Legally, driving is a "privilege" not a "right". No excuses if your painting your nails. Gross vehicular manslaughter.

"...failure to reduce speed to avoid an accident" is a bulls**t charge. I'm with BD on this one. I would like to see a manslaughter charge.

When behind the wheel, I realize the risk involved with taking my eyes off the road ahead and accept the risk relative to the probability of the risk occurring. A quick glance to change the radio carries the same risk as painting the nails, but with lower probability of occurrence. Yet I assume full responsibility and bear the weight of consequences should an accident occur while changing a radio station. I'm not willing to take on the same risk by painting my nails (even if I painted my nails, which I don't so don't go there http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif).

[jesse]

Been there done that, not really, only lost my leg. Yes he got jail time, FINALLY. Long story, not fun for anyone. Under age driver under influence hit 2 bikes/3 people.
She needs to sit this one out in jail and think it over for a long while.

[Cajunrider]

In Louisiana she would more than likely be charged with vehicular homicide because she was negligent when she collided with the stopped motorcycle. One thing I can say for the driver is she is either very honest or just plain dumb to admit what she was doing while driving.

[henryk]

+1 rickyboy I agree with what you say, but it seems to me that in todays F*#^&&up world "tough love" couldand probably would get the parents thrown into jail.

[keith23]

Rickyboy I’m just kidding about you being a hard man.
In this instance I agree with you.
I was just trying to make the point we can’t always jump to conclusions when we read something like this. The accident my son had was probability one of the best things that could of happened to him. He went from “I know it all about driving “ to one of the most careful conscientious drivers I have ever ridden with. That happened 11 years ago and he still mentions it if I’m not paying attention. When something like this happens I think we need to apply the laws we have and not use a knee jerk reaction to punish someone.
Whether it is polishing nails or reading the newspaper or texting. We don’t need more laws we just need to enforce the one we have consistently.

[socwkbiker]

A few points:

If this was a child who had been run over by this woman, the outcry for her to be put in prison would be heard from border to border, coast to coast. But because it's one of us, a motorcycle rider and an adult, the outcry is not nearly what it should be and we are even debating what the punishment should be.

A distraction, reaching back to stop one kid from hitting another, dropping food or coffee, some random act that causes a driver to look away from the road can be somewhat excused because it is not a planned activity.

However, driving while texting, talking, using an application on a cell phone, reading a map or other material, PAINTING YOUR NAILS. These are all activities that require a conscious decision and involve long periods of time looking away from the road. I can not see these as excusable, especially when another person's life is involved. This should be vehicular manslaughter and this 48 year old woman deserves jail time.

[tazfl]

A few points:

If this was a child who had been run over by this woman, the outcry for her to be put in prison would be heard from border to border, coast to coast. But because it's one of us, a motorcycle rider and an adult, the outcry is not nearly what it should be and we are even debating what the punishment should be.


You'd hear allot more outcry about it if it was a bicyclist also

[mdgeorge]

How much education do you need to know not to paint your nails while you are driving. This is what is called a "no brainer". No education necessary. If you have sense enough to get behind the wheel, you have got sense enough not to put your make up on, text, or paint you nails.
This is nothing short of stupid selfishness.

[ballast]

I try to always pay attention to what is coming up behind me at a light until it is stopped. How freakin' senseless and sad.

[rickyboy]

+1 rickyboy I agree with what you say, but it seems to me that in todays F*#^&&up world "tough love" couldand probably would get the parents thrown into jail.

I wasn't going to venture back into this but I need to respond to your comment henreyk. This is something I don't talk about much, for a couple of reasons. The main reason is because it was the toughest thing I have ever done in my life. I hope there is nothing else around the corner that tests me as much.

My oldest daughter at the age of 14 refused to go along with some simple rules that most parents enact in their homes. A reasonable curfew, try and keep your room cleaned, try to do as well as possible in school, don't do drugs,.....don't be on the phone all the time or for hour long conversations........you parents know what I'm talking about. Here's the shorten down version.
She decided to leave home and basically go it on her own. She continually hung out with shady kids, which got her into drugs, and eventually ending up on the other side of our country. Always phoning saying she needed money to get home etc. etc.. Told me she was living on the street. I always told her that our door was always open for her, but she would have to go by some rules we had in our house. We had 4 other kids in the house and weren't going to have different rules for them or her. I stuck to my guns and didn't/wouldn't let her get away from her responsibilities, or send her money. There were times and many nights when I cried and wondered where she was and what was she doing. Not just that,... I questioned myself and if what I was doing, was the right thing. She never did come back home. But she eventually reconnected with us and has a pretty normal life and has one daughter, a fantastic kid I'm proud of and to say she's my granddaughter.
My daughter now agrees with me that what I did was the right thing, and follows much in the same way as I did. Maybe even more strict than what I was. I think I achieved my goal, although it almost killed me emotionally. But most of all my daughter is better off for what I did. She is a strong person today. Could I have been held responsible for some of the things she did? You're probably right. I didn't care. It would have been worth it if it meant she would learn something. Although she chose the hard way around it. knowing now how things have turned out, it was definitely worth it today. So I agree henreyk, the US and Canada are bleeding hearts toward these mistakes. What the "heck" are we teaching the children of today if we say "it's not that bad if you have an accident and you take someones life. We know you're sorry and you didn't mean it." yada yada yada
Well I've "gone off" again.... sorry folks. I'm glad to hear as many people as what there were that seems to agree with my opinion. As long as the supporters aren't as old as I am and have seen all the kids leave the nest by now. But hopefully they'll teach their kids differently. I think the pendulum is swing back the other way and all might not be lost after all.
Thanks for letting me share.
{something I learned from the 12 step program}

[flavor]

Hey Rickyboy...................+1

[henryk]

rickyboy ++1. I'm glad things turned out right for you and your daughter.

Here's an update on the story. http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=291185&src=3

[henryk]

"But because it's one of us, a motorcycle rider and an adult,"
Your correct SWB.
Once we get on the motorcycle we become
"nobody's" in the eyes of most people. And if one of us gets injured or killed it seems to me that all anyone ( anyone who doesn't ride & doesn't have a clue about ridding) seems to think is "good riddance there goes another one of 'those people' ".
The law seems to want to protect the person causing the "accident".

[cactusjack]

Ricky, thanks for sharing your story. You certainly didn't have to do that.

Let me share my thoughts on one of the problems in society and its cause.

(If I get worked up here, it's because this really grinds my gears). People in society have lost all concept of civility, manners, courtesy, and consideration for their fellow man.

The other night I came home from work and about an hour later had to run to the supermarket for something. I go outside and I notice the street is blocked off a few houses up the road. I saw a large commercial lighting system like they use to do road construction at night. I saw a huge inflatable "bounce house" being erected, there were hundreds of balloons all over the place. This was some little kids birthday party. I'll bet that kid got a huge dose of self-importance that night. What an ego boost it must be to have your parents block off the street (it's legal, with a city permit) to inconvenience everybody else on the block so little Bobby or Sally can be king or queen for the day. I have nothing against birthday parties, as long as they are done in moderation.

What does this teach the kids? It teaches them that they are the only ones that matter. Me, me, me and everyone else can go pound sand. This is a good start on a lifetime of self-important behavior. These are the future people who will walk through the grocery store blathering on their bluetooth headset so everyone can hear their conversation and see how important they are. These are the same people who will hold up the line at the supermarket checkout while they carry on that conversation.

No matter where you go, you see inconsiderate behavior. People blocking the aisle in the store, people pushing their way into line, people with a full cart of groceries going to the "15 items or less" line, people who act as if they are the people on earth, and their needs come first. I made it a point to teach my kids manners and consideration for others. I taught them that it isn't right to inconvenience others.

This relates to the topic because this driver that killed the rider was only thinking of herself. She was all that mattered, and the world rotates around her. It's merely a symptom of a bigger problem in society.

[strobe]

Legally, driving is a "privilege" not a "right". No excuses if your painting your nails. Gross vehicular manslaughter.

This is likely the most important thing to remember IMHO. Too many people approach driving like it is their God given right to be on the road and that they basically own that road and can do what they want. They have no regard for other people on the road. There was a time when an accident was just that most times, an unavoidable incident, but now most accidents are not truly accidents, they are completely avoidable if people would just think and act responsibly, and remember that the minute earlier they get to their destination is not worth putting their life, and the lives of others at risk.

Like CJ, personal responsibility is a real hot button issue for me. Too many bleeding hearts want to blame everything on some other issue, they will blame parents, the design of a vehicle, roads, etc, etc, etc while never accepting that the people involved own the choices they made that led to the issue in the first place.

Rickyboy, I applaud your ability to hold the line with your daughter, I cannot even begin to imagine how hard that must have been, but I think it was the right thing to do, and I only hope that if I ever have to make choices like that I can make them in the best long term interest of my daughter. it is so easy to make excuses for our kids and bail them out each time they get into trouble, I am glad things worked out for you and your daughter.

[Cajunrider]

Ricky, Thanks for sharing your experience. I experienced similar problems with one of my older sons. He too got into his first trouble at 14 years old and has had a couple of more run ins since then. He is now 31 and is doing better considering where he was. His last run in was just a couple of years ago and I left him behind bars for 3 days before bonding him out. That was really tough on my wife, not so much on me though. I was raised hard and tried to raise my own in the same way. The toughest battle was getting my wife to go along with me. The kids pick it up real quick when there is disunity between the parents. I admire you for sticking to your guns through the whole ordeal. Your mission was accomplished.

[rickyboy]

Thanks for everyone's kind words,....let me take my hat off here and humbly say I didn't tell the story to say "hey look what I did". I meant to stress the importance of tough love with children. They need to be told NO. And taught that immediate gratification, and getting everything they want isn't necessarily a good thing.
I think a big part of some of the problems is, and seems apparent in your story CJ, is that parents want to be friends with their kids first, and then parents. It doesn't and won't work like that. You have to put the friendship a lot lower on the list until such a time that the "kids" have learned some of the basic things like you said CJ... "civility, manners, courtesy, and consideration for their fellow man. "

I agree with you "cajunrider" being on the same page with your partner is important and sometimes hard to accomplish. Women are different animals for sure. It proves that "God has to have a sense of humor ,... after all he put man and woman together".
But their ideas are different. My wife taught me a lot about raising kids. I learned to not sweat the small stuff. I didn't always listen though. {like any kid} But things have turned out just fine. But the job of being a parent continues to some degree. Now I'm telling my "kids" to not sweat the small stuff and to focus on the core values.
So thanks again for the kudos people ....this has been an interesting thread. I look fwd. even more to meeting everyone in Custer. Peace Bros. and Sisters

Now on to more pressing issues ...like picking up my "new to me" lower bag rails I purchased from "namvet". Oh boy !! more chrome. http://s2.images.proboards.com/grin.gif but I don't have a problem, honest.

[Yellow Jacket]

Every year more people die in the United States in vehicle accidents than those who died in the entire Vietnam War (conflict or whatever else the PC crowd wants to call it.)

I daresay that a large number of these fatalities are the result of inattention, distraction, negligence or just plain stupidity.

I agree with rickyboy. If that makes me a hard person, so be it. I think we need more hard people today. No one wants to accept responsibility anymore for their actions. It's always "someone else's fault!"

I think it is much too easy to get a drivers license. The so-called "driver education" programs are totally ineffective and too shallow in my opinion.

If every driver knew, without any doubt whatsoever, that if they caused someone's death due to their own negligence that they personally would serve many years sitting in prison I believe that the accident rates would drop.

Yes, I think that better training and education would help to produce better drivers. But, as long as there are not strong and consistent punishments for negligent behavior resulting in someone's death or severe injury then driving behavior will not change.

[henryk]

Funeral Service for Anita Zaffke

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/biker_rally_own

[rickyboy]

God Bless her!!! Wish I could have ridden in support.

[nomad561]

While I think she should serve time,it's looks like she probably won't because we have become a society of "victims".
It doesn't matter what influence someone has on a situation,they can almost always be shown as a "victim". If a burgler gets shot while breaking into a home,he was just an unfortunate person trying to get ahead and didn't DESERVE to be shot down like a dog. If a drunk driver kills someone while driving home from a bar,it's not his fault,the bartender should have seen he had a drinking problem and not served him.
There is very little "personal responsibility" in our society anymore mainly because (IMHO) we are told everyday that we don't have to accept responsibilty for our actions if we can find a way to blame someone else.
Remember, TRUE FREEdOM is the ability to make decisions for yourself and the responsibilty for for the repercussions (good or bad) for those decisions.

[henryk]

It doesn't matter what influence someone has on a situation,they can almost always be shown as a "victim". If a burgler gets shot while breaking into a home,he was just an unfortunate person trying to get ahead and didn't DESERVE to be shot down like a dog. If a drunk driver kills someone while driving home from a bar,it's not his fault,the bartender should have seen he had a drinking problem and not served him.

+1 Rick, you got it right.